Exploring Mormon Music & LDS Culture with co-host Peter Breinholt - Part 1/2

The Paul Cardall Podcast

Utah musician Peter Breinholt and Paul Cardall, raised in the umbrella of Mormonism, and host Paul Cardall explore the history of commercial Mormon music, Latter-Day Saint culture and theology. LDS music is a multi-million dollar industry.

ABOUT CO-HOST PETER BREINHOLT

Website: https://peterbreinholt.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/peter.breinholt.3

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/peterbreinholt

LISTEN TO PETER'S MUSIC

SPOTIFY https://rb.gy/c6evx

APPLE MUSIC https://rb.gy/5s7g0

ABOUT THE HOST PAUL CARDALL

Official Website - http://www.paulcardall.com

Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/paulcardallmusic

Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/cardall

Instagram - http://www.instagram.com/paulcardall

LISTEN TO PAUL'S MUSIC

APPLE MUSIC - https://music.apple.com/us/artist/paul-cardall/4312819

SPOTIFY - https://open.spotify.com/artist/7FQRbf8gbKw8KZQZAJWxH2

PART ONE

Paul introduces Utah musician Peter Breinholt. Growing up under the umbrella of Mormonism, they discuss the differences in how they were raised. Paul comes from an orthodox home in Salt Lake City where his family was active in all the cultural and theological teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS). Whereas, Peter grew up outside of Utah and didn't have an active family. He moved to Utah, started a band, and evolved into an active Latter-Day Saint.

Peter explains that there are Mormons making Mormon-themed music for Mormons sold at LDS bookstores, and then there are popular bands or singers who happen to be LDS. Paul summarizes how popular LDS-themed music has become; it’s a multi-million dollar industry. Peter clarifies that in Utah, where LDS headquarters are, because of the social network that the Church provides, when things catch on, it’s like a wildfire. There are mega trends in Mormonism.

Paul talks about pioneer immigrants who wrote hymns using the contemporary style of their time. They mention that even though there is a commercial music culture, the church itself is rather strict on what they present in worship services called Sacrament Meetings, and full-time missionaries are allowed to listen to. Electric guitars and drums aren’t allowed in services. Missionaries were allowed to listen to the Tabernacle Choir and some piano music, like Paul. Today, missionaries can listen to whatever helps them feel the spirit of God, though leaders are still cautious.

As the church evolved in the 80s, there was Michael McLean, a songwriter who produced a series of videos promoting church doctrine. Missionaries would take those to those who saw the ad on TV. They talk about Mormon ad campaigns in the 70s and 80s. The songs in the ads were a huge part in persuading people emotionally and had a significant influence on the direction commercial Mormon music proceeded.

Peter and Paul talk about the Osmonds, the most popular LDS musicians in the 20th century. Their fifth studio album that was on the Billboard charts is called “The Plan.” Their concept album was an opportunity for The Osmonds to share Mormon theology. There have been people who have joined the church as a result of their love for Donny Osmond. They skip ahead a few decades to talk about another famous band, The Killers, whose lead singer Brandon Flowers is a devout Mormon.

In the late 1970s, early 80s, Afterglow was a blockbuster duo whose songs were rich with harmonies. They were one of the first to have a record deal with the church-owned bookstore, called Deseret Book. Their music was overly religious with strict LDS themes. Deseret Book at the time had hundreds of stores along with hundreds of independent stores by people who sold LDS related products. Record labels began to pop up.

Peter brings up Kenneth Cope, whose voice was featured in some of those Mormon ads. Kenneth wrote and recorded some of the most successful commercial Mormon music. All of this is happening while Amy Grant in the Christian market or Gospel Music Association was becoming successful, and her Christian-themed music crossed over into the adult contemporary top 40. Greater Than Us All was Kenneth’s successful debut with His Hands and Never A Better Hero. My Servant Joseph was another hit album about with songs about LDS founder Joseph Smith. Kenneth takes his responsibilities in the church seriously and when he was called to be a Bishop, in a church with no paid ministry, we didn’t hear much from Kenneth Cope until recently. He’d spent 15 years producing a new musical called "Son of Man."

Along with Kenneth, Michael Webb recorded similar LDS themed songs and has since left the church. Paul says one of his favorite songs is a new Christian song by Michael Webb. Peter and Paul explore artists Julie De Azevedo, Felicia Sorensen, and other successful female artists who started to emerge in the 90s. Julie is the daughter of Lex de Azevedo, who was successful at writing LDS musicals like "Saturday’s Warrior," and "My Turn on Earth." He started a record label that signed Kenneth Cope, Michael Webb, Julie, and others. Julie became a popular therapist and podcast host helping countless LDS women understand their value. They mention Hillary Weeks and move into a conversation about Jeff Simpson, a former Disney producer. Jeff was ambitious in helping take LDS music forward into a more contemporary and overall style. He had a vision to make LDS music part of the broader Christian market under the Gospel Music Association. But Jeff’s label Excel was never successful because of the differences. He was successful at creating a film production and distribution entity with the breakout hit "God’s Army" by Richard Dutcher. Excel would later sell to Deseret Book. He also created an award show called "The Pearls" honoring LDS music.

Before talking about cellist Steven Sharp Nelson, Peter mentions Nashville Producer Jason Deere who created the Nashville Tribute Band, which was country music with LDS themes. Cellist Steven Sharp Nelson, who is now a member of YouTube sensation The Piano Guys, worked on hundreds of albums by members of the LDS faith. Peter shares how he met Steve and began using him in his band. Later, Paul used Steve to orchestrate his music with another brilliant LDS artist, Marshall McDonald. Both Marshall and Steven worked as a team to help dozens of artists. Paul invited Steve to let him produce "Sacred Cello" for Paul’s label Stone Angel Music. Steve didn’t believe it would be successful, but the album debuted No. 18 on the Billboard Classical Charts. Steve is an artist who shared the burden with artists that occurs in the studio and on the stage. Paul shares with Peter the countless LDS artists who created LDS-themed albums that debuted on the Billboard charts. Deseret Book began reporting sales to Soundscan.

"Especially For Youth" is the next topic. The weeklong camp on Brigham Young University’s campus and dozen other colleges across the United States gathered LDS Youth from all over. EFY gave these LDS teenagers a 12-song compilation that featured a cassette, CD of LDS artists who wrote songs about the camp theme. Every kid received one. EFY music began in 1986 and continued until 2019 before the LDS Church changed the youth program. In the 80s not only did you have Michael McLean, Kenneth Cope, and Julie De Azevdeo, but over the decades, artists evolved out of these produced EFY albums. Why? They were approved by the church since the program was under BYU, a church-owned private university. Not everyone appreciated the songs, but the production was top quality. However, producers and artists were not given the standard music industry fees. Peter wanted to get involved and was at a point in his career where the LDS church listened to him. He recruited Jon Schmidt, Steven Sharp Nelson’s partner in The Piano Guys, to produce an authentic album of songs. However, they were restricted by several policies. Peter produced one more several years ago with songwriter Russ Dixon from the Utah group Colors. Concerts were also performed, and youth looked forward to it. Overtime EFY did away with the concerts because leaders felt there was too much attention drawn to the artists. There was one theme song that was the EFY “We Are The World” that brought the popular artists who were LDS together called, “Especially For Youth.” Mormons who go to the Temple make covenants that they’ll donate all their time and talents to building up the Church. As a result, artists felt an obligation to do things for free or for very little pay. They discuss firesides, which are special events inside a church building. In the beginnings, Churches wanted firesides, but overtime fewer and fewer musicians were invited to perform their music about God. Peter shares his experience being asked to perform for LDS leaders and bring his band, only they wouldn’t pay for anything. Peter would have to pay his band out of his pocket.

Peter and Paul share their frustration as an artist who doesn’t do LDS themed music. Because he lent his voice to a few LDS themed songs, the music platform’s algorithm made him an LDS artist and recommends other LDS artists instead of the Americana Folk artists. Paul also shares his frustration that new material still references artists that the metadata feels is comparable to when Paul started in 1995. Paul talks about doing an album with Steele Croswhite, who was not LDS, and slowly the culture started working with people of other Christian denominations.

Paul talks about his experience speaking and performing at a Missionary Fall social attended by Apostles Russell M. Nelson and Elder David A. Bednar. A previous 70s prophecy by President Spencer Kimball invited LDS members to create the very finest artist, particularly because he believed they have all the truth. He showed the apostles the classical Billboard charts that had 5 out of 10 people who were LDS. He showed that his prophecy was being fulfilled. Afterward, Elder Bednar invited Paul to write a song with him. Paul worked with Steven Sharp Nelson and Marshall McDonald to produce Paul and David Bednar’s office song "One by One." Paul would later present Elder Bednar with a plaque showing he was part of a No. 1 Billboard charting album. Paul would perform this piece with LDS tenor Nathan Pacheco. Paul discusses the positive experience of doing business with Elder Bednar and the corporate church concerning owning the master rights to their song. Paul learned that Apostles do not take a royalty. If so, it goes directly to the church missionary department.

Peter talks about Trina Harmon, a Nashville songwriter who isn’t LDS, has helped several Mormons evolve as writers and artists. She complimented LDS members but said she’s not yet met an LDS artist who is truly aligned with the mission of the Church. The LDS Church demands a lot of service and rules, leaving artists at odds in creating music. Paul agrees and says that anyone, LDS or not, who creates music that points people to Jesus Christ is important. They briefly discuss Paul Simon who is getting older and producing an album about his relationship with God. Maturing popular artists lean into producing faith-based recordings. Artists need to speak to the struggles. Peter talks about his daughter choosing to go on a mission and his concern that it could go one or two ways. Missionaries lean in or when they return, get out of the church.

Paul shares Christian artist Andrew Peterson, who like Peter Breinholt, built a community of artists within a cultural context. In Mormon culture, there’s a little bit of reluctance towards charismatic musicians. When Peter was connecting with the youth in a fireside, the leader stood up to make sure the audience understood that Peter is not someone who they need to look up to, but to look up to God. Leaders tend to put down artists. A leader cornered Peter to ask him if he’s a kingdom builder or a Peter builder. They discuss Mormon theology about being ordained Kings and Queens, so there’s a sense of looking down on those who aren’t anointed joint heirs with God. Paul shares that he needed to strip away all the idols and ideology that stood in the way of having a full relationship with Christ. Paul believes in the Four Gospels over any new revelation from those who claim to be God’s prophets. The Four Gospels are 4 eye witnesses of the Resurrected Lord who disagree on the details, but they all tell the same story. He goes into talking about the Codex Vaticanus and the other codexes that were used by St. Jerome to give the world the Latin Vulgate. Paul gets into why he doesn’t believe in a Church that he loves with all his heart. They talk about Joseph Smith’s first vision narrative that the Church has been teaching for hundreds of years, that even LDS scholars say that narrative can’t be sustained. It’s simply not true. Peter says that artists deconstruct. It’s why artists write songs, to say something they can’t say with words. They compose how they feel.

They discuss challenges in Mormon doctrine. Paul talks about one of the Christian churches he attends called Immanuel Nashville with Pastor TJ Tims. Artists analyze everything.

Paul and Peter end by setting up part two.

ABOUT PETER BREINHOLT

Peter Breinholt is well-known performer in the Salt Lake region and became so largely through word-of-mouth. His debut record became the best-selling independently released CD ever in the state of Utah, and was described a decade after it's release as "an underground classic" by Salt Lake Magazine. Peter has performed for countless sold out crowds in every major concert hall in the state, including Kingsbury Hall, Tuacahn and Sundance. Utah Governor Gary Herbert recently honored Peter with the Governor's Mansion Award for Achievement in the Performing Arts for his influence as a songwriter and performing artist.

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