20 | Never Stop Growing with Cameron Alexander

Through The Creative Door

In this episode of Through the Creative Door, Alexis sits down with Cameron Alexander, a talented singer-songwriter navigating the highs and lows of creative life. From the challenges of van life through the Australian terrain to the importance of finding a personal creative space, Cameron opens up about the delicate balance between routine and inspiration. Tune in for an insightful conversation about overcoming imposter syndrome, creating art in both good and bad moments in life and celebrating resilience, growth, and authentic creation true to you.

If you’d like to see more of, you can follow Cameron on instagram; @ __cameron_alexander__

This episode was recorded on 6 May 2024 on the lands of the Yuggera Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.

Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.

Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor

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Creative resources from Cameron:

I Heart Songwriters Club - https://www.iheartsongwritingclub.com/

Let’s get social:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/throughthecreativedoor/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast

CREDITS

Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor

Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel

Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel

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00:09 - Alexis (Host)

Hello, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. May we pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I will be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. I’m delighted to welcome you to Through the Creative Door.

Hello, how are you?

00:51 - Cameron (Guest)

I'm so well, I'm so much better for seeing you on this humid Brisbane afternoon.

00:57 - Alexis (Host)

Cameron Alexander. Welcome to Through the Creative Door.

01:01 - Cameron (Guest)

It's so good to be here.

01:03 - Alexis (Host)

Technically, I'm through your door, but that's yeah, that's you know, that's how this podcast for all. I get to come and visit

01:11 - Cameron (Guest)

Strangers in places

01:13 - Alexis (Host)

Stranger danger

01:16 - Cameron (Guest)

no no, no danger.

01:19 - Alexis (Host)

So let's start with a little bit about you. So you are a phenomenal artist in your own right.

01:27 - Cameron (Guest)

Thank you, I appreciate that.

01:28 - Alexis (Host)

You really are. You write some really catchy tunes and I think I'm enamoured, because I obviously can't play guitar, so, like I just watch what you do, I was like, oh they're just so lush so beautiful.

01:45 - Cameron (Guest)

That's really. That's really nice to say,

01:48 - Alexis (Host)

Oh well, it's the truth. It's the truth, but you have toured, you have recorded, you have done van life, even with your touring, which I just love absolutely froth that.

02:05 - Cameron (Guest)

Well I have to say you helped us out with that because we were going in very dark and I think Ansel, my fiancé and I we had a coffee meeting with you and you gave us a lot of very valuable tips.

02:15 - Alexis (Host)

Oh, I just want everyone to go van life. I was just so excited when you were like I'm thinking about doing this. I'm like yes, yeah, yes, this I'm like yes, yeah, yes,

02:25 - Cameron (Guest)

yeah, it's hard, but it's good. It's harder than I thought. I think I rely on routine more than I realized, and I don't think I maintained routine as well as I could have

2:38 - Alexis (Host)

I would suggest it's pretty difficult to retain any kind of routine, not only just van life, but just on tour or on the road which you guys were all over the place for that yeah, so I wouldn't worry, I don't sweat small stuff.

02:55 - Cameron (Guest)

What are you gonna do?

02:57 - Alexis (Host)

So you have been traveling a lot. We're here in brisbane, but you're originally from Perth yes uh, you've had lots of different spaces to create, yeah, but I'm curious what does a creative space mean to you and why?

03:14 - Cameron (Guest)

I sort of found on the road. I didn't write much at all really, um, lots of words maybe here and there, as far as like melody, um, and actual, you know, like putting a song together, like not much, and I'm not sure if that's just because maybe you don't have anywhere. That feels private or like for me I don't really like and I would like to do more of it, but I don't really like creating in the presence of anyone else, so much in terms of writing a song. Maybe, once you're putting something together, absolutely obviously people there. But I definitely found like, like and this was the biggest thing with with travel or whenever we've moved from one apartment to another is like if there isn't a space, that is just for that, um, it sort of doesn't happen, and I think what that means, like for us now, when we, when we moved here and moved into a place, we sort of wanted to have either a garage or a bedroom that we could set up with all the, all the other music gear in there, because I think if you have all your stuff, say, in the lounge room, oh yeah, you could play in the lounge room. It's like well, you can, but you also live with someone else and maybe there's people staying and all of those things.

04:14

So for me I think um, you know, it needs to be light for me, like, and I need to feel like it's light and that sort of then comes into the garage thing, whereas I can't go and sit in like a dark sort of like a dank cellar of a garage and create, because it just doesn't really work.

04:28

It's like I want to be light for me. I put a bunch of plants around, but I don't think that's essential, but I do like it and I think it just has to be instruments everywhere. So I like to have maybe two or three guitars out and a bass out and maybe there's a harmonica on the table, and I think when all those things are out, you just pick them up and play. So, even if you're not planning on creating proper, you just pick something up and play and that thing leads to another thing, and then you're like oh cool, and you either quickly grab a sound grab and you work on it later. Yeah, I guess when I lived in a bigger house, there was a guitar in every room and some of them were really crappy and some of them were really good, and sometimes you play the crappy one.

05:07

You're like I actually really like how the crappy one sounds when I play this particular thing, yeah, but otherwise, like it doesn't need to be big, it just needs to have its own little separate place for me and it needs to feel private.

05:19 - Alexis (Host)

Have you ever been able to get over that and write in front of or like, have the concept of a song in the presence of anyone?

05:29 - Cameron (Guest)

I think I can do it lyrically, I can do words and I can do melody, but like I couldn't do instrument in front of people, I wouldn't be able to, like, write anything on guitar in front of people. I think that comes from. I feel like, guitar wise, I feel like it's something that is like the least natural of the singer-songwriter thing for me. So it's probably the thing that I feel like I need to sort of nut out of mine a little bit, work out of my own a bit and then take it to someone and could work on it then. But I need to go with like a blueprint or nuts and bolts, yeah, probably vocals and lyrics I could do on the spot, I think, pretty happily.

06:05 - Alexis (Host)

It's interesting that you say that, because I do think it is a learned skill to be able to create, and I think you're always paying attention, like you know that someone's at home or someone's somewhat in earshot, even if they're not really paying attention to you. But it's funny because I started playing piano when I was a kid and an upright piano was always put in a public area of a house yeah so I sort of got used to the fact that someone would be hearing me. I never really got full privacy, yeah, and so yeah, it's almost flipped me.

06:36 - Cameron (Guest)

For me that's really interesting yeah.

06:38 - Alexis (Host)

I can. I can start things and sort of hum things and I yeah, even when I'm in share houses. I can sort of obviously, depending on the subject matter and things like that.

06:49 - Cameron (Guest)

You know, maybe you don't, it feels a bit too private but, for the most part yeah yeah,

06:58 - Cameron (Guest)

I think maybe it comes from like a feeling of almost like pseudo imposter imposter syndrome with a guitar or like I feel like I'm like does anyone realize I still don't know what I'm doing with this yet like it kind of feels like that. So, even like jamming with people, as long as I let's just have a jam I'm like I, I just don't think it's the thing that I do. I don't really enjoy it because maybe I'm just a bit on edge of my ability yeah but again singing or like writing.

07:22

So let's do a writing day. I'd be like, let's do, it sounds great. So let's just jam, like play some guitars and stuff, like nah, I'll do that by myself. Sorry, which comes across as rude, but it's just. I actually just don't think I have the ability for it. I'm sorry

07:34 - Alexis (Host)

Well, we know what our strengths and our weaknesses are. Yeah, we, yeah, all good. Yeah, all good, yeah. When did you start playing guitar?

07:44 - Cameron (Guest)

I think I was probably like 13. Yeah, I think, and then I just was a very bad student.

07:54 - Alexis (Host)

In what way?

07:54 - Cameron (Guest)

In terms of like I just didn't do anything, but I want to play this. And your teacher was like great, this is how we're going to do this. This is like structure. This is that. This is that. Then you go to the lesson next week like, cool, how'd you go. And you're like, did you reckon they'll be able to figure out that I? And you're like, yeah, I was really struggling with with that C chord. Again, you're like, when you're struggling with that six months ago, you're like, yeah, it's really just come around, hasn't it?

08:16 - Alexis (Host)

I do vividly remember piano teachers and they always expected you to do like certain scales and certain exercises and yeah, I don't know as kids why do you think that we all think that we can fudge it and they're, oh,

08:26 - Cameron (Guest)

They're not gonna know that it sounds terrible everyone can hear it. I left my guitar in my guitar teacher's room once for like a whole week, like in between lessons, and when I got back he's like how'd you go? And I was like yeah, great. And he's like how your guitar's been here for a week, he's got me there.

08:51

Well played, oh man and like could you imagine now, though, like doing weekly or two sessions weekly, and how much that would would cost? And my parents were just paying for that, and I was just fudging it. No, I was. I was like, yeah, I in hindsight could use that time again perhaps but then here we are, so.

09:11 - Alexis (Host)

Oh, exactly, and you know it's all for the plot yeah.

09:19 - Cameron (Guest)

yeah exactly. I should tell people I didn't start till. I was like 25, I'm like wow, you're really good. Thank you. Less good for 15 years of playing.

09:28 - Alexis (Host)

Well, I think you're fabulous.

09:30 - Cameron (Guest)

Thank you Alexis.

09:33 - Alexis (Host)

So that leads me into my next question. What if you could pick a body of work or something that you've worked on that you're most proud of creating? How do you think that came about, and like what is that project?

09:52 - Cameron (Guest)

Yeah, it's a good question, Thank you. No, I think, like, honestly, there's a lot of stuff I've written lately, like since we've been here and you don't have the social community, like your social community, your friends and family like there's a lot of time to do the stuff that otherwise, you know, extracurricular activity takes out, of which for me is music and writing. There's heaps of stuff. I've got on all the electrics. I've sort of gone away from acoustic for the time being with a lot of things and I'm like spending hours and hours on that and really trying to finesse and get the sound out. So I think I'm going to be really proud of that once it's out.

10:32

But I think the more obvious answer is probably the my first EP and at the moment, my only EP that's out, because that was such a response to my own like I didn't really start writing music, so I was probably 23 or 24, even like at all, and that whole EP was kind of a response, I think, to like probably about six or seven year period where I struggled a lot with anxiety and depression, which I think we hear come up a lot when you listen to, like a creative's podcast or interview, like, I think, mental health stuff and looking for either an expression of that or an escape from that probably comes up in art quite a lot. But like, listening to those the five songs on that, like they're all kind of about that, I mean I didn't really realise writing at the time. And then when you're talking to people about it afterwards or listening to it, um, you so realize you're almost, like you know, writing a letter to yourself. In a lot of ways, um, and I guess, like it's it's called Ruminations because I felt like I just had this huge period of time in my life, like really formative years, where, like was just so stuck in thinking all the time, um, and thinking mostly negative things all the time and being really worried about what everyone else thinks about you, and just like so caught up in that really vicious cycle.

11:42

And so, like you know, it's called Ruminations, because I spend a lot of time ruminating on things, you know, for no real practical or positive gain, I guess, which, like I'm really glad I had that period now and I sort of uh felt like I haven't been there for, uh, probably six years, um, like at all, which has been fantastic um, but I feel like through that period I've, you know, become like I feel like I'm a very empathetic and sympathetic person and um, and have a lot of time, or try to have a lot of time for people that are also, you know, not feeling great or picking up when someone's not feeling great, because I feel like I really understand what that is like, and so I'm proud that that body of work is kind of about that.

12:27 - Alexis (Host)

It's a beautiful record.

12:28 - Cameron (Guest)

Yeah, thank you, I appreciate it. But yeah, I feel like I've been able to step, take another step away from just writing about your own thoughts, feelings and emotions, and I think it was like really almost like for me, like cathartic in a way, to do that again, like not intentionally, and now it's like it's done, like off your chest. I'm sure it's not done done, but it kind of feels like a full stop on a sentence there for me.

12:53 - Alexis (Host)

I can relate to that. I have, yeah, bodies of work, that that was a time and a place and I wouldn't change it or rearrange it, but that, exactly what you said that door, all that full stop, that door's closed. And now you can like be like okay, what's next?

13:11 - Cameron (Guest)

Yeah, yeah absolutely that's it. It's like it's there, it’s great, it’s done. Hopefully, at least that is.

13:14 - Alexis (Host)

On the flip side of something that you're proud of, has there been a challenge, or like something that's like a time in your life that's challenged your creativity?

13:31 - Cameron (Guest)

Yeah, for the last maybe eight months or maybe 12 months, I feel like I've just written so much so I sort of forgot. There was actually like like I wrote, wrote all those songs on the EP and a bunch of my singles, and then it could be like a song every six months or like like sometimes I feel like I wrote a song for a year. I was like man, I feel like now that I've gotten rid of a lot of these emotions that were making, that were really fueling a lot of my music, and also, you know, I'm in a super happy, like loving relationship, whereas, you know, maybe when you're going through a breakup or something, you know that gives you a lot of fuel to write about stuff because your emotions are right at the surface. So I think, like, as I found myself in a way more comfortable place in life and a like way more happy place in life and like way more happy place, I was like I don't have anything to write about, um, and you still do write some stuff, but it didn't really feel very, uh, genuine. I feel a little bit disingenuous because you're like well, it's not really. It's not really where I'm at, um, which is okay to write like that of course, it's where I like it now, um.

But yeah, I think, like one of the things I learned there was also, I was like I have like you also, I want to write in alternate tunings. I want to play this sort of folky music or this sort of alternative kind of stuff, because that's what I listen to and that's what I like. So I'm not going to do anything in standard tunings, I'm not going to do anything that follows basic song structure or just well-known song structure, and so that was probably a real halt on things, because you're like oh, I've already used that shape, I've already used this pattern and this kind of just sounds like that. So I did and I signed up for it and one of it, one of our mutual friends, Ruby shout out, Ruby, she had suggested to me before the iHeart Songwriters Club. It's like online, they put you together with a you know a little online chat group, basically, and you do a song all the time, uh, like one a week for 10 weeks or something like that, um, and you might get a lot done. You might not get much done, uh, but through that I was like, just for time's sake, I'll start playing a bit more in standard um, and you know okay, like I'm sort of have hit a bit of a block here, so I was like I don't understand music theory, but I can understand enough to get my head around like a basic song structure so I can go. Okay, I'm gonna, I know I like to.

15:36

I write a lot in the key of c. I think a lot, of, a lot of people do. Uh, so, okay, what are the chords in c? Okay, cool, these go, and then you sort of put it together, you know okay, and then you do another deep dive, like I'm literally like rope learning this stuff.

15:46

So I'm like looking at youtube videos and like wikipedia on on how to write a song in this thing and so like approaching in a way that was like I'm just going to do it differently to how I normally do it and um, and you know, a couple songs come out of that and I'm like actually I love these little effectively like little four chord bangers in standard tuning, um, and from that I've then gone back into and now I feel like I'm writing a lot, you know electric, alternate, electric, standard, like acoustic, and like it just feels like at the moment. Um, yeah, I feel like I'm writing a lot and I think a lot of that was just by trying to break out of doing exactly what I do. Do something different and everything is everything's a lot more clear and like so much better for it, I guess it's like another tool.

16:27 - Alexis (Host)

I do think we need to judge things up sometimes, like push us out of our comfort zone, like because we do get into a bit of a formula which there's nothing wrong with the formula, but it's good to challenge ourselves and sometimes we need to put ourselves in situations where you're doing the songwriting, you know class, or like something else to others around you to sort of push you a little bit.

16:54 - Cameron (Guest)

Yep. And also, like you have that pressure of like, well, you need to have something next week, so figure something out. It's not quite done, but you know you might have something that you might not ever use that song again. It might've been a shape in there that you really liked chord wise or a verse in there that you really liked. You then take that verse and I think there's something I could do here. That I think there's something I could do here. That verse becomes a chorus, that becomes a song. And it was all because you had you know an hour to just bust out something that you know resembles a song as quickly as you could. So I think, yeah, just looking to do something different, rather than for me, I probably just sat there a lot trying to play something like God, I've got nothing. Like I've really got nothing here. I'm like I'm trying all this stuff, it's just nothing. And, yeah, force the hand a little bit.

17:35 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, now is there any object or thing that you can't live without when you're creating?

17:42 - Cameron (Guest)

The. The obvious one would have, like it has to be this very specific guitar. It's like my first um Maten, which is just recently been retired from gigs because, um, it doesn't quite sound like what it used to, despite a lot of work. So I think I've had that since I was maybe, oh, no 14. Um, it's like beautiful, absolutely love it. Just an old, like pretty, just run the mill, sort of mid range Maten, but like I just love writing on that um, and I've got some other like much better guitars, um, and I just don't really write on them. Um, but when I'm specifically sitting down to put a song together, if I feel like something's coming, coming around, I'm like, oh, there's like an earworm, you know, when you feel you feel you're like, oh, I think love, and I'm feeling very creative and so you go and um, it's pen and paper.

18:30

So I find like I do have a phone full of notes and voice memos and all the rest, but like, as far as you know, maybe I've got something 40 percent done, if I sit down with pen and paper I can probably get it very close to being, you know, majority done, versus if I'm typing in my phone. I don't know why it just um that one's quite essential for me.

18:49 - Alexis (Host)

I'd agree with that. I'd agree with that. If you could give one piece of advice, one nugget of gold to another creative what would it be?

19:06 - Cameron (Guest)

This one's such a cliche but truly like writing something that you actually enjoy and or like or painting something, or you know you can do. You can do so many things well, but if you don't like it, it either gets really old really quickly or like you just don't enjoy doing it. So, like you know, say, maybe cover gigs and stuff like that for me is something that like I actually just really don't like doing it. Um, I just find it quite boring.

19:28 - Alexis (Host)

Look, I've done my fair share and I'll be honest, Yeah, yeah, and I really struggle

19:34 - Cameron (Guest)

I love that other people do it and I love playing some covers here and there. Sure, I just really like writing and creating and I feel like playing someone else's stuff um, just doesn't do it for me quite as much. So I think, like really like, do do what you like and you're probably good at it, and I think always, always just look to get better. It was really like you're not gonna be as good today as you are tomorrow and you're gonna be much better next year than this year. And I think like that's such a big thing with art is how rapidly something can improve, at least to everyone else.

20:12

You know, I remember like two years ago you weren't quite this good and so well, I have done it for three hours a day for the last two years. So I would hope I'm a bit, but like, truly like the amount of work that goes into it feels like so much and it is a lot. But the relative time frame I don't think is, you know, you know in in your life or all the rest of it, like it's actually not so much. So I think always be accepting of feedback and trying to grow.

20:34 - Alexis (Host)

Well said. Well said, I mean, we just mentioned that IHeart Songwriting.

20:44 - Cameron (Guest)

Yes, iheart Songwriters Club I believe.

20:45 - Alexis (Host)

iHeart Songwriters Club. Additional to that, as like a resource or something that you've been able to utilize, would you recommend anything else if someone sort of wanted to do what you do, um, or if they wanted to develop their creative process?

21:06 - Cameron (Guest)

Yeah, I actually I feel like I try and do these things so I can speak for, like, what I've tried and what's worked, like. So, um, trying something different, like really, like truly. Um, I wanted to play everything alternate tune because that makes me super alternative and cool. Uh, so I'm never going to do anything in standard and I start writing in standard a little bit and I'm like this is so much fun. I love these little, these little bops, and like the audience loves them.

21:31

So so, trying something completely different and that might be if you're someone that's always like a really structured, you know we're going to go verse, verse, chorus, um, verse, bridge, chorus, chorus, chorus. Like try and do it completely different. Um, and try, yeah, just just look at anything that's different to what you're doing and see if you can find something in that. It's not a specific resource, but I think like it's also really achievable, like you don't have to pay anything to listen to a Leonard Cohen album on spotify and it's probably really different to anything you're doing, because it's quite strange, um and and yeah, I think, find what motivates you.

22:10

So when I go and see a show, I like to be close to where the guitar pedals are, so I'm like what's this guy doing? there and everything. And then that makes me think, okay, well, now I'm going to go try, I'm going to try some of those things. I saw they were doing that and like. So you're just always like tinkering and and trying new things and different things to what you do, I think.

22:29 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, amazing. Yeah, I do that. I like obsess over, like depending on what people are doing at the shows

22:30 - Cameron (Guest)

Yeah, it's funny, it's like you enjoy it, but sometimes it's like you can't enjoy it because you're um, it's like you're learning. but in a good way, in a great way,

22:41 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, I've had this, but yeah but I've had this conversation with someone before about how like I thoroughly immerse myself and enjoy going to live music. But there is I'm, I'm I don't want to say critiquing, cause that sounds bad, but there's definitely an element of like Hmm, yep, they're tight and they're doing this or what they're doing over there.

23:02

Oh, I like that intro. Oh, I like what they did with the backing vocals there.

23:14 - Cameron (Guest)

Do you hear that? Like that seg seg, like how they just went from there to there. That was unreal. Like, um, I think they're using backing tracks here. Yeah, does that sound like a backing track to you? Like it's so funny. Um, that's what Ansel and I always find right. How did it go? I thought it was really interesting that they changed from like that guitar to that one. Just like what? Like, just watch the music, mate.

23:25 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, it's so true, I'm exactly the same. One last question yes, if you could hear any other creative, come on this podcast and chat with me and answer these questions, who would it be and why?

23:40 - Cameron (Guest)

There are some great ones, but the list could be like 40 people long um hit me with some, with some. Do you know Idan Shmoné Have you had him on?

Oh, he's incredible. So he's Israeli multi-instrumentalist. You probably would have seen his videos around, but saxophone is a big one for him. He's an incredible singer, incredible songwriter, currently touring with a band, but has toured with a full loop set up where he'll loop ten different instruments and he's an incredible story. Him and I have had a few beers around a fire and I just listened to him talk for four hours and it's just amazing. He's so funny. But yeah, he's come from Israel, moved to Fremantle, just all this stuff is wild. He'd be a great one because he is a story.

24:27

Sunday Lemonade those guys are great because they've just been grinding so hard. I think, um, their story for what I've seen and what I've spoke to them about is like they're always just doing it, that more old school, that old school music way, where you just like tour and tour and grow an audience and they do it so well I think, that's super admirable, because I definitely burnt out a little bit with it after a year and a bit, so so I don't know how they manage it.

24:55

Um, and then gosh all the people in Perth we know, yeah there's just so many there's honestly, I really do feel so inspired by so many people and when you go see them you're like it's just so good when you see everyone else doing so well and you're like I remember when we played this and we did that and, like you, all sort of know each other, it's like it's um, yeah, it's gorgeous, I think yeah.

25:16 - Alexis (Host)

Beautiful. Cameron Alexander, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It's been so beautiful having you through the creative door oh.

25:26 - Cameron (Guest)

Thank you for letting me in. You know I've been knocking for some time, yeah.

25:36 - Alexis (Host)

Thanks for tuning in for another episode of Through the Creative Door. If you enjoy our episodes and find value in them, consider supporting us by making a donation. Just visit buymeacoffeecom/throughthecreativedoor or via the link in our Instagram bio where you can choose an amount and even write us a little message. Every little bit helps and we truly appreciate all of your support. But if you can't donate, no worries, you can still help us out by sharing our podcast with your friends and family and leaving a review on your favourite platform. Thanks so much for being part of our community. We'll catch you on the next episode. Bye.