Welcome to the Liminal Living Podcast, where we dive deep into the realm of liminal spaces—those transitional phases where uncertainty is our companion. I'm your host and curator of conversations, Dr. Tom Rundel, and it's my pleasure to serve as your guide through these uncharted territories. With a doctoral background in spirituality and leadership from Portland Seminary, my research has centered on the spirituality found in the narratives of liminality in the Bible, but I have expanded my ...
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S3 E27: Eric Nevins: Dark Night of the Vocational Soul
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Highlights: Embrace the ongoing process of spiritual growth and recognize that there is no arrival point. Question expectations that God will make everything smooth sailing and happy. Allow God the freedom to be creative in how He works in your life and the lives of others. Recognize the tension between the objective and subjective experiences of G…
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S3 E26: Keith Giles: Decoding the Gospel of Thomas
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Insights The Gospel of Thomas is a collection of the sayings of Jesus and does not have a narrative like the other Gospels. The Gospel of Thomas was suppressed by early church leaders, particularly those who opposed the Valentinians. The Gospel of Thomas was found in 1945 in a clay jar buried in the desert. Scholars have dated the Gospel of Thomas …
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S3 E25: Steve Harper: Christian Nationalism Isn't Christian
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The importance of stripping away layers of interpretation to reveal the true essence of Christ. The challenges of countering Christian nationalism and the significance of speaking the truth in love. The concept of God as a being and the implications of this understanding. The connection between spiritual formation and the inspiration behind the boo…
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S3 E24: Thomas Jay Oord: On Trial for Heresy
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Advocacy for LGBTQ+ inclusion within the Church of the Nazarene is a complex and challenging endeavor, involving theological, social, and personal dimensions. The conversation sheds light on the tensions and complexities within the church and society regarding LGBTQ+ issues, highlighting the need for thoughtful dialogue and understanding. Thomas Ja…
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S3 E23: Peter Rollins: Is God Dead? A Peek Into Radical Theology
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Key Take Aways: Embrace the contradictions and dividedness that are inherent in being human. Loss and death are fundamental aspects of existence that shape our experiences. Grief should be acknowledged and processed as a natural part of life. The death of God and the tearing of the temple curtain challenge the idea of liminality as a space where th…
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S3 E22: Grace Ji-Sun Kim: When God Became White
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Buy the book: https://www.ivpress.com/when-god-became-white Listen to the pod: https://www.christiancentury.org/podcast/madang Read her Blog: https://gracejisunkim.wordpress.com/ Subscribe Substack: https://gracek.substack.com/ Names hold deep significance in Korean culture, connecting individuals to their family and generations. Understanding race…
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S3 E21: Ben Katt: The Hero's Journey to Wholeness
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Check out Ben's Website here: https://www.benjaminkatt.com/ Grab Ben's Book here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1250910447?tag=macmillan-20 Leaving the familiar and falling into the unknown are two distinct stages of a transformative journey. Leaving the familiar involves recognizing the need for change and making a decisive break from the past, while …
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S3 E20: Daniel Wolpert: Looking Inward, Living Outward
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You can buy the book here: https://upperroombooks.com/book/looking-inward-living-outward/ You can connect with Daniel here: https://www.facebook.com/daniel.wolpert.1 Contemplation frees individuals from habits and patterns that cause suffering and promotes compassion and care. Contemplation is not just an individual practice, but also a communal on…
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S3 E19: Brian McLaren: Life After Doom
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You can preorder the book here: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250893277/life-after-doom You can find Brian's work here: https://brianmclaren.net/ Introduction The Conflict Between Conservative Faith and Love for Nature Facing a New Situation The Impact of Climate Change and Rising Depression The Importance of Spiritual Help The Power of Naming…
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S3 E18: Zach Lambert: A Holistic Inclusive Bible Interpretation
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"Have you ever had a difficult time reading Paul’s Epistles? Ever felt like your questions were not part of the preapproved rhetoric of the groupthink? Zach felt the same way growing up in the Southern Baptist Church and lived at the edges of inclusion, fading further away from his faith. And then he read the Gospels and wondered why his church was…
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S3 E17: Tom Rundel: Arriving at 95% Certainty is Good Enough
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"Have you ever wondered how much of what you believe to be true is actually influenced by the quirks of your own mind? In this solo episode of the Liminal Living podcast, we delve into the fascinating realm of cognitive biases and their impact on our perception of reality. We use Brian McLaren’s list of 13 cognitive biases that cloud our judgment, …
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S3 E16: Chad Bahl: To Hell with Eternal Conscious Torment
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"Have you ever always hated the doctrine of eternal conscious torment but felt like it was too central to the faith to discard? Chad is the guy to talk to. Today we deconstruct the theology of ECT, discuss its origins, its evolution, and its future home in the proverbial lake of fire. We also discuss open and relational theology, evangelicalism, li…
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S3 E15: Ally Henny: I Won't Shut Up
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"Have you ever wondered how one finds their voice in a world that often seeks to silence them? Today, we're diving deep into that question with author and advocate-minister Ally Henny, as we explore her journey of resilience, faith, and empowerment. Ally is the brilliant mind behind "I Won't Shut Up: Finding Your Voice When the World Tries to Silen…
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S3 E14: Justin Lee: Coming out as Gay in the Southern Baptist Church
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Have you ever been made the “prayer request” of a community because your story didn’t match the triumphal testimony narrative? Justin grew up in the Southern Baptist Church as a conservative labeled by his high school peers as “God boy.” He was handing out tracts, evangelizing, and really good at obeying purity culture rules when it came to women. …
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S2 E13: Amy Fritz: Untangling Faith from the Evangelical Industrial Complex
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Has your faith community become a breeding ground for spiritual abuse? Today I talk to Amy Fritz, host of the podcast "Untangled Faith," and we delve into the complexities of spiritual abuse within faith communities, drawing from her personal experiences and her husband's encounters while working for Dave Ramasey. Through occasional articles, Amy s…
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S3 E12: Matthew Paul Turner: Finding Belonging after deconstruction
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Have you struggled with finding community and belonging after deconstruction? Many do, because you are in a liminal space of development, unsure of who you are, what you believe, and therefore, who your people are. Matthew Paul Turner, no relation to Tina, has been on a journey of belonging that he illustrates with a new Children’s book, You Will A…
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S3 E11: Trey Ferguson: Theologizin Bigger
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Have you ever felt like your faith tradition put you in a box, stifling your curiosity and ability to ask real questions? If so, then you'll want to hear this interview with author Trey Ferguson. Trey's book "Theologizin Bigger" takes a refreshing look at how to "theologize" - to wrestle with faith and theology in an embodied way that embraces myst…
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S3 E10: Josh Patterson: Mysticism, Spiritual Evolution, Merton
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What happens when you get two deconstructed pastors in a zoom conversation together? A talk that spans from Thomas Merton’s mysticism, faith evolution, open and relational theology, Christian nationalism, and beer. Today’s conversation is the sharing of two deconstruction journeys and the evolution of faith that took place. Today we talk with Josh …
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S3 E9: Dr Andrew M Davis: Philosophy, Theology, and Alien Life
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S3 E9: Dr Andrew M Davis: Philosophy, Theology, and Alien Life If our theological framework was developed in medieval times under an earth centric understanding of the universe, how does that change with the discovery of near infinite galaxies out there? What does a Christian faith look like that is not earth centric or human centric? What does tha…
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S3 E8: Dr David Fitch: Church on the Wrong side of Power
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S3 E8: Dr David Fitch: Church on the Wrong Side of Power What happens when the church uses the power of the world to accomplish the purposes of God? You get the Church on the wrong side of power, with a reckoning that needs to take place. Today I talk with David Fitch about his new book, Reckoning with Power, Why the Church Fails when it’s on the W…
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S3 E7: Jason and Lori Adams-Brown: Interpreting Preda-Pastors Controlling Narratives
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How can you identify the narratives used by high control pastors to maintain control? In this episode of the Liminal Living podcast, we talk with Jason and Lori Adams-Brown. With extensive backgrounds in intercultural studies, trauma care, and missionary work, Jason and Lori offer invaluable insights into the insidious nature of spiritual abuse wit…
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S3 E6: Dr Jonathan Foster: Liminal Space of Grief After You Lose a Child
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9 years ago, Jonathan watched from his picture window as a law enforcement officer drove up his driveway to give him the devastating news that his 20 year old daughter was killed in a car crash. His family has been in the Liminal space of grief ever since. He wrote a book about his grief entitled, indigo, the color of grief. This work guides our di…
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S3 E5: Dr Tim Carson: This is Your Brain on Liminality
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Has deconstruction left you feeling isolated, anxious, and alone? Dr Tim Carson and I talk about the liminality of deconstruction, and how we are in a large collective “we” space of deconstruction, and the desperate need for liminal guides today. We also talk about the neurology of liminality and why it is so transformative. Timothy Carson is the c…
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S3 E4: Tom Rundel: Why I Left Evangelicalism
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I get personal today on why I left the Evangelical stream of the faith, but also on why I am still a Christian and a pastor. We explore, historically, what an evangelical is, how fundamentalism took over and partnered itself as a political machine. So I share some of my points of departure, and then go on to share some points of consent, on why I a…
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S3 E3: Jason Raitz: Trying to Stay in Church, Post-pastorate
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When a pastor has experienced both the beauty of a spiritual community, and the hurt and abuse of demands for excellence for nearly 26 years, it is a confusing place to occupy. Jason Raitz and I have been friends for nearly 30 years, walking with each other through the highs and lows of our lives. We have landed in very different places; geographic…
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S3 E2: Dr Emily Smith: Your Friendly Neighborhood Epidemiologist
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Dr Emily Smith is a PhD epidemiologist whose work has been featured in TIME Magazine, Christianity Today, the Washington Post, and NPR. Dr Emily’s profession as an epidemiologist was a natural way to express her Christian values for loving her neighbor. So when the pandemic hit, she was in a unique spot to rally the church together to love their ne…
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S3 E1: Alana Levandoski: The Longing is Home
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S3 E1: Alana Levandoski: The Longing is Home Welcome to season 3 of the Liminal Living podcast. And today we talk with spiritual teacher, artist, and musician, Alana Levandoski. Alana has gone on pilgrimages and come back to alchemize her experiences into music. Her perspective is large and her wisdom is deep. On today’s episode we talk about the i…
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We made it to the end of the year! So to celebrate I revisited our top three most downloaded episodes*, as well as read some of your comments on your favorite moments. Thank you for listening and contributing to the conversation. Here is to a great season 3! *after recording this, Dr Chris Green’s episode released and became the #1 downloaded episo…
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S2 E36: Dr Chris Green: Dead Answers vs Living Questions
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S2 E35: Dr Chris Green: Dead Answers vs Living Questions Too often theology becomes more about trophy hunting for the “right” answers in order to impress and display. But trophies are dead things. Dr. Chris Green and I talk about the role of art and imagination in the theological process of finding living questions, which are small answers that lea…
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S2 E35: Kenneth Tanner: God Becomes Human in Christ... for real.
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God became a human being, the incarnation, a central dogma of the Christian tradition that I was not taught in my Evangelical tradition. Well it was a messy necessity for Chgrist to be human so that the “real” dogma of substitutionary atonement was valid. Father Kenny and I dive into this concept in all its beauty today on what it means that God be…
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S2 E34: Dr Thomas Jay Oord: God is not Omnipotent, and that's good news
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S2 E34: Dr Thomas Jay Oord: God is not Omnipotent, and that is Good news. “Can God microwave a burrito so hot that even he can’t eat it?” -Homer Simpson. All joking aside, today I talk to Dr Thomas Jay Oord about his new book, the Death of Omnipotence, the Birth of Amipotence. This book provides a critique of the classic doctrine of Omnipotence, an…
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S2 E33: Tom Rundel: Holding Conviction Confidently and Non-violently
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Have you ever learned a new perspective, started a new diet, or become really religious, and then get on a mission to convert everyone in your path to this new thing… only to leave it behind at some point and wonder what’s real? Me too. It leaves you feeling guilty for being “wrong” or feeling shamed for convincing so many people of something you a…
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S2 E32: Scot McKnight: Revelation, End Times, and Christian Nationalism
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S2 E32: Scot McKnight: Revelation, End Times, and Christian Nationalism Today I talk with Scot McKnight, he's the professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary, a history buff of early Christianity, a theology nerd, and a prolific author of almost 40 published books and academic articles. He's delved deep into topics like the historical Jesus, ea…
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S2 E31: Rob Bell: Life, Death, and a Little Bit of Everything
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Today on the podcast I have the wonderful privilege of talking with Rob Bell about his new book, Where'd You Park Your Spaceship? We meander in conversation from topics like grief, surfing, death, life, resurrection, hope, dreams, and as the title suggests, a little bit of everything. You can find Rob's work here: www.Robbell.com Time Stamps for th…
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S2 E30: Keith Giles: Deconstruction is the Revival you Prayed For
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Today on the podcast I talk with prolific author and chief boat rocker, Keith Giles. We talk about his upbringing in the a fundamentalist Baptist Church, and his journey through deconstruction. You can find Keith's writings here: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/keithgiles/ and here: https://www.bk2sq1.com/ and here: https://rb.gy/9yjeod all music in …
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S2 E29: Deb Gregory: Ignatian Spirituality, Disability in the Church, Living Liminally
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What happens when the church space you helped create and cultivate is not hospitable and inclusive of those in your own family with neurodivergent minds? Deb Gregory shares her story of traversing liminal spaces from her childhood into her professional career and how Ignatian spiritual practices have helped “moor” her to her faith and family. Deb i…
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S2 E28: Kate: When a Pastor/Husband is a Predator: Trauma, abuse, and Healing
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A pastor who had 12 victims over the course of 20 years is found out. The patriarchal leadership of the church wants to sweep it all under the rug quickly. But *Kate, who happens to be married to this pastor, says “No!” She is not allowed to lead in this culture in spite of being the greatest leader in the room with the best plan, so she decides to…
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S2 E27: Tom Rundel: The Bible Says... Why I don't say that anymore
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Have you ever had someone use the phrase, “Well, the Bible says…” to correct you? But then they dismiss other things the Bible says with a “yeah, but…” Who we offer our “yeah but” comments to and who we hard line with “the Bible says” reveals more about the one using the phrase than it does the Bible. Today I talk about why I no longer use the phra…
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S2 E26: Kathy Khang: Finding a Home: Hospitality, Immigration, and Power in the Church
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Who gets to decide the modern dogmas of who is in and who is out? Probably not the people Jesus would hang around with, marginalized communities. I have an honest and beautiful conversation with author Kathy Khang today about her experience as a Christian in America who immigrated from Korea. And she highlights things from that perspective that I h…
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S2 E25: Tom Rundel: Does God have a Gender, Karma, and more Science talk
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Does God have a Gender? Is Karma real? What did the Bible say about Dinosaurs? And other fun questions in this ask me anything episode where I take on your theological questions: Scott: According to Christianity, the only way is through Jesus. According to another religion, the only way is through their belief system. How can we all be right? Does …
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S2 E24: Matt Tebbe: Money, Power, and Abuse in the Church
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Why have we spiritualized so much of Jesus’ teaching on poverty, money, and forgiveness? It is the only way we could make sense of his teachings while wearing the insulation that power provides us. But what does Christ say about money and power? How have we harnessed what Jesus calls the god of mammon into our methodologies of modern church growth …
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S2 E23: Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley, Indigenous Spirituality and De-Colonizing Christianity
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What if the severe dogmatic cruelty of our modern expression of faith is an add on of Western Colonialism? What would happen if you started to pull on the thread of colonialism in your faith. What would come out? What would remain? Today I talk with Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley, an expert voice in the areas concerning spirituality, earth-care, racial and…
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S2 E22: Anthony Smith: Faith, Race, and Politics
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Today I talk with Faith rooted organizer, Anthony Smith. Anthony headed up the removal and relocation of a Confederate Statue in his city of Salisbury, North Carolina. We talk about his faith, his work, for the poor and marginalized of his city from his position as a pastor and city council member. He is a man rooted in place and dedicated to seein…
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S2 E21: Tom Rundel: Ask Me Anything Bible Deconstruction
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S2 E21: Tom Rundel: Ask Me Anything: Bible Deconstruction I solo riff on today’s pod and take on some more of the questions that y’all sent in as we talk about our approach to the Bible, how it has caused harm, and how we can change it going forward. The questions I take on are… Erica: Is the Bible meant to be read as a set-in-stone manual to be ta…
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S2 E20: Karl Forehand: From Fundie Baptist to Spiritual without Labels
56:58
56:58
बाद में चलाएं
बाद में चलाएं
सूचियाँ
पसंद
पसंद
56:58
S2 E20: Karl Forehand: From Fundie Baptist to Spiritual without Labels Often, church can become more about keeping the systems running smoothly, the people happily entertained, and money flowing into the plates. But what happens when you have to grieve or enter a season of suffering or become disabled? Karl Forehand is a former Southern Baptist Pas…
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S2 E19: Tom Rundel: Don't Spiritualize Your Problems
34:37
34:37
बाद में चलाएं
बाद में चलाएं
सूचियाँ
पसंद
पसंद
34:37
S2 E19: Tom Rundel: Don’t spiritualize your problems, claim your confidence Have you ever felt like God abandoned you and left you in the midst of a storm that you could not overcome? In this episode, I solo riff on Matthew 14’s account of Christ walking on the water and calming the storm. I take note of the parabolic writing style and use that kno…
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S2 E18: Dan White Jr: Burnout, Ego, Inner Journey to Healing
1:00:55
1:00:55
बाद में चलाएं
बाद में चलाएं
सूचियाँ
पसंद
पसंद
1:00:55
Have you ever been burned out, had PTSD, had an existential crisis? So has our guest for tToday. I talked with Dan White Jr. a church planting strategist with the V3 Movement, co-founder of the Praxis Gathering, author of 4 books, pastor and Church planter for the last 20+ years, as well as co-founding and building The Kineo Renewal and Retreat Cen…
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S2 E17: Tom Rundel: Hell, Judgement, and Universal Reconciliation
59:24
59:24
बाद में चलाएं
बाद में चलाएं
सूचियाँ
पसंद
पसंद
59:24
Does hell exist? Who goes there? Does Matthew 13’s furnace reference talk about it? Today, I spout off about my views of hell, judgment, and justice. I share my thoughts around the passage from Matthew 13, commonly called the parable of the wheat and tares, where the wheat and tares are allowed to grow together until the end of the age when the whe…
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S2 E16: Lance Hough: The Abuse of Commodifying Creativity in Church
1:11:32
1:11:32
बाद में चलाएं
बाद में चलाएं
सूचियाँ
पसंद
पसंद
1:11:32
S2 E16: Lance Hough, The Abuse of Commodifying Creativity What happens when a church continually commodifies creativity for a Sunday morning experience? Today, I talked with a friend and former church creative director, Lance Hough. Lance experienced leadership abuse under a few different pastors that led to an existential crisis concerning his fai…
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S2 E15: Caleb Jacobson: A Journey to Agnosticism
1:03:41
1:03:41
बाद में चलाएं
बाद में चलाएं
सूचियाँ
पसंद
पसंद
1:03:41
What happens when a pastor’s kid and a worship leader from a Marshill satellite in Seattle becomes an Agnostic? Today on the podcast I talk with long time friend, Caleb Jacobson. Caleb comes from a conservative evangelical background, is a pastor's kid in a family with a heritage of pastoral vocation. Caleb had an existential crisis with his faith,…
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